Translation of surname origin attributes

International Russian
,
1

Hello!

In version 6.0.6 of Gramps, the translation of Origin Attributes shown in the table below is used. I believe that not all terms have been translated appropriately, and some changes should be made to the translation: I propose my version in the “New” column, and the justification is provided after the table. The descriptions are taken from the documentation. I kindly ask for your opinion.

Seq. Attribute Definition Current New
1. UNKNOWN indeterminate origin Other Unknown
2. LOCATION Location
3. INHERITED name was based on the parent name(s) Inherited surname Parent’s name
4. PATRILINEAL name was inherited from father’s family name Origin, patrilineal Father’s surname
5. MATRILINEAL name was inherited from mother’s family name Origin, matrilineal Mother’s surname
6. GIVEN name was bestowed on the individual (includes ‘John Doe’ names) Surname at birth Assigned surname
7. TAKEN name was chosen by the individual, including when adopting a spouse’s surname Adopted surname Chosen surname
8. PATRONYMIC name is derived from father’s given name Patronymic Patronymic
9. MATRONYMIC name is derived from mother’s given name Matronymic Matronymic
10. FEUDAL name refers to the holding of land in a fief Surname by feudal grant Feudal surname
11. PSEUDONYM name is fictitious Pseudonym Pseudonym
12. OCCUPATION name refers to the trade employing the person Occupation Occupation

Proposal for item 1. I think there is no question.

If we compare the description of item 3. and items 8. and 9., we see that PATRONYMIC/MATRONYMIC is derived (derived) from the father’s/mother’s given name, while 3. INHERITED is a name that is based (based on) on the parent’s name. If the father’s name is Peter, then PATRONYMIC would be “Petrovich” and INHERITED would be “Petrov” (as it was in the Parish Registers before 1917). Meanwhile, “Petrov” is by no means a surname in most cases!

Today, most children in Russia receive a “father’s surname” 4. PATRILINEAL or “mother’s surname” 5. MATRILINEAL at birth.

If the child’s parents are unknown, an “assigned surname” 6. GIVEN is given to him. It is quite incorrect to translate this as “Surname at birth.” Unfortunately, I think many users often choose this option.

2

If in Gramps, “given” is translated as “personal name” and “surname” as “family name,” then the “origin” attribute for the family name immediately becomes clear and necessary.

Here’s how the changes would appear on the screen for entering a person’s information:

person_ru_with_origin_with_comments
person_ru_with_origin_with_comments1087×823 112 KB

This change is fully justified from the perspective of modern Russian language norms. In the “Big Encyclopedic Dictionary,” we find the following definitions for “фамилия” (surname) and “отчество” (patronymic) (emphasis mine):

ФАМИЛИЯ (Latin familia), … 1) family, lineage… 2) In Ancient Rome, a familial economic-legal unit including not only blood relatives but also slaves… 3) Hereditary family name, acquired at birth, upon changing the original surname, adoption, marriage, and passed down through inheritance.

ОТЧЕСТВО, according to Russian legislation, a part of the family name, assigned to a child at birth registration based on the father’s name or the mother’s indication if the marriage is unregistered and paternity is not established.

In the “Explanatory Dictionary of the Russian Language”:

ФАМИЛИЯ, -и, feminine. 1. Hereditary family name added to the personal name. Surname, first name, and patronymic. What is your surname? Maiden name (before marriage). Husband’s surname (adopted by the wife upon marriage). 2. Same as род (in the second meaning). Ancient family name. 3. Same as семья (in the first meaning) (archaic). The whole family went to visit. || adj. фамильный, -ая, -ое. Family name (same as фамилия in the first meaning; specialized). Family photo. Family trait (hereditary). Family heirlooms.

ОТЧЕСТВО, -а, neuter. Name derived from the father’s personal name. State your first name, patronymic, and surname. His name is Pyotr, and his patronymic is Ivanovich. To address someone by their patronymic (i.e., respectfully, by first name and patronymic, or colloquially, by patronymic alone).

From these definitions, it is evident that both “фамилия” (surname) and “отчество” (patronymic) are hereditary traits inherited by a person from their ancestors! On the other hand, “имя” (first name) is an individual characteristic of a person. In the “Explanatory Dictionary of the Russian Language,” we read:

ИМЯ, имени, plural имена, имён, именам, neuter. 1. Personal name given at birth, often generally the personal name of a living being. Proper name. His name is Ivan. First name and patronymic. To call someone by their first name. Names of ancient gods. What is your name? To name a horse, cat, puppy. A monkey named Yashka. 2. Surname, family name. Names of fallen heroes on the wall.

I believe that, considering the above, the proposed changes to the “Origin” attribute names appear even more justified.

For example, in the 19th century, a peasant named Ivan Petrov would have the “personal name” Ivan and the “family name” Petrov, with the origin attribute “Parent’s Name” (INHERITED), as described above. Ivan Petrov Vasilyev would have two family names—Petrov and Vasilyev (father’s and grandfather’s names)—each with the origin attribute “Parent’s Name.”

In the 20th century, Ivan Vasilyevich Petrov would have two family names: Vasilyevich, with the origin attribute “Patronymic,” and Petrov, with the origin attribute “Father’s Surname” (PATRILINEAL) if born in wedlock, or “Mother’s Surname” (MATRILINEAL) if the father is unknown.

I would appreciate comments, especially well-reasoned opposition.

3

Did you know that you can suggest translation changes in Weblate?

(I noticed that very few people respond to questions about translations. And Weblate is a pain for users who only use it occasionally.)

Kaj @kmikkels and I are working on a Gramplet that can simplify suggesting changes.

I’ve entered a couple of your changes as sample data. (They are not actually entered into the system.) So you can see how the Gramplet highlights “terms” that are:

  1. in yellow: duplicating “English terms”, or
  2. in green: changed.

image
image893×641 57 KB

4

Thank you, Brian!

You are right - some months ago I opened Weblate and … closed it rather quickly :grinning_face: But today I spent some time and understood (more or less) what I have to do. It appears that I have to enter proposed translations (described in the posts above) and press “Suggest” button for each of them?

weblate_screen
weblate_screen1910×736 161 KB

In the commen field I’ll put a hyperlink to this discussion.

May I just “Save” the new translation? I found a list of “dedicated reviewers” but “Translation in Russian” has not been updated since 2020 so I’m not sure whether my translations will be reviewed by someone.

1 Like
5

That is a good question. I do not know whether Weblate suggestions are reviewed by @Nick-Hall or by the lead Translator for each language. Maybe Nick can answer that.

(In another thread, @thomwithoutanh requests users of Weblate take a survey. It is about identifying painful parts of that software.)

2 Likes
6

Thanks @emyoulation -

@petr_fedorov we’d be keen to get your input, either in the survey here or on this forum. Including about why you opened Weblate and…closed it rather quickly!

1 Like
7

I think that is the key point. Gramps users have a proven history of being willing to scale a steep learning curve. But the abortive bailout of Weblate is a common comment.

(The same “bailout” reaction in Gramps tire-kickers is something I try to track aggressively. I see it as an “opportunity”. Not to win back ‘market share’. But to identify spots in our GUI that are probably tainting the UX and productivity of all Gramps users.)

8

Translations can be reviewed and approved by anyone in the “Review” team. Once approved, a string can only be edited by a reviewer. Other users can make suggestions.

Strings don’t have to be approved to appear in the translation.

If an approved string needs to be changed and no active reviewer is available, then please contact me or another Weblate administrator.

Weblate translation workflows are configurable at a per-language level. I can investigate further if you think that some settings need tweaking.

1 Like
9

Tom, I’ll respond to survey as soon as I gain some experience with Weblate, hopefully within a week.

I opened Weblate using my old notebook Lenovo Y570. The site was very slow. I managed to reach this screen:

my_weblate_interface_problem
my_weblate_interface_problem1276×894 113 KB

The screen has two words “Поиск” which means “Search”. The above one attracted my attention, while the one I really needed I hardly noticed. I entered Russian word “Имя” (which means Name) in the above field - nothing happened! I decided that search is extremely slow and I can’t use the system.

10

As you discovered, you need to click on the menu item “Поиск”. From the search page, if I enter “Имя”, I quickly get 108 results.

11

Thanks Nick, got it. Another question. It seems that on several occasions I need to add gettext’s context to a string to be translated. Consider Surname. I want to change translation here but not in the other places, so I would add context “surnametab.py” to “Surname” string like that:

 (_("Surname", "surnametab.py"), 1, -1, TEXT_EDIT_COL, -1, None),

Then I commit this change to maintenance branch, submit pull request and after some time I should see a new word to be translated for all languages? Then responsibles for every language will take care of it?

12

It is important to note which of the ‘Components’ is selected for your string search. Each has a separate translation file. But you can do a simultaneous search.

image
image452×456 17.1 KB

13

For a start I’ll submit a pull request to the current maintenance branch which will add gettext’s “context” to the source strings listed in the table below. In addition the pull request will contain an updated file gramps.pot generated as described here. I assume that *.po files will be re-generated automatically and new untranslated words with these “contexts” will appear in Weblate database for all languages. Then I’ll add (Russian) translation for these words as well as change translations of the other eleven words so all changes will be applied simultaneously.

Source Weblate Github Context
Surname link1 link2 Multiple surnames
Given: link3 link4 Given names
Given: link5 link6 Given names
Unknown link7 link8 Surname
2 Likes
14

Weblate will update the po files and should also keep the existing translations.

1 Like
15

After addition of the above “contexts”, I’m going to change translations of the following words as described in the table below:

English Current New
Family Names Фамилии Родовые имена
Multiple Surnames Множественные фамилии Родовые имена
Surname Фамилия Родовое имя
Given Имя Личное имя
Unknown Прочее Неизвестно
Location Местоположение Фамилия, от места
Inherited Фамилия унаследованная Унаследовано
Patrilineal Происхождение, по мужской линии Фамилия, от отца
Matrilineal Происхождение, по женской линии Фамилия, от матери
Given Фамилия при рождении Фамилия, назначенная
Taken Фамилия принятая
Feudal Фамилия по посвящению Фамилия, от феода
Pseudonym Псеводоним Фамилия, псевдоним
Occupation Профессия Фамилия, от профессии

There is one case which I don’t know how to classify: when child’s surname is a combination of father’s and mother’s surnames, i.e. John Smith and Mary Brown → Ann Smith-Brown. While it is not very common, it is currently one of the three legal options for the surname of a newborn child in Russia if his/her parents have different surnames: “Smith”, “Brown” or “Smith-Brown” (or “Brown-Smith”). Is there a special term in English for such case?

1 Like
16

In the US, the typical Surname inheritance is Patrilineal. But while most do not realize it, this is not a legal requirement, just an assumption. The parents can choose Matrilineal, double-barreled … or whatever they darn well want! (So “Moon Unit Zappa” dodged at least one bullet.)

1 Like