Question about possessive (Genitive case) in translations

Development
1

I am trying to tidy up some messages for translation and the wiki is not completely clear.

  1. I assume something like _("the mother's birth date") is easily translatable.
  2. When I wish to add a name then:
  • _("%(name)s's birth date") % {'name':name_displayer.display(person)} seems probably the worst choice
  • _("the birth date of %(name)s") % {'name':name_displayer.display(person)} is still suggested by the wiki as having problems.
  • the Wiki suggests tabulated form, but that is sometimes difficult in this situation as the string is gradually built up through several layers of function. Would something like _("the birth date (%(name)s)") % {etc} be preferred?

And I have yet to find a case where this text ever gets exposed to the normal user, but it is part of the defined return list from probably_alive()

2

Experienced translators’ opinions would be best here, hopefully someone can jump in, otherwise you may want to ask this on the Gramps developers mailing list.

If you’re referring to the Coding for translation using weblate wiki, the example is for the case when a person’s name changes in the genitive (had to look up that word!) form. Does the same apply to the case when you’re referring to the person’s own birth date?

3

I needed more detail about genitive case too.

prompt to Perplexity :
As an expert in grammar and writing genealogical documents; explain “genitive”

What is the Genitive Case?

The genitive case is a grammatical term used to indicate possession, origin, or a close relationship between two nouns. In English, it is most commonly expressed with an apostrophe + “s” (e.g., John’s book) or the preposition “of” (e.g., the roof of the house). While it is less prominent in English compared to other languages, it plays a crucial role in showing ownership or association.

In genealogical writing, where precision and clarity are paramount, understanding and correctly using the genitive case can help clearly express relationships and connections between individuals, places, and objects.

Examples of the Genitive Case in English

  1. Possession:

    • Mary’s diary (The diary belongs to Mary.)
    • The child’s birth record (The birth record pertains to the child.)

  2. Origin or Source:

    • The king’s decree (The decree was issued by the king.)
    • A descendant of William Smith (William Smith is the ancestor.)

  3. Relationship:

    • John’s father (John is related to his father.)
    • The family’s history (The history pertains to the family.)

The Genitive Case in Genealogical Writing

In genealogy, you often deal with relationships, lineages, and records that require clear attribution. The genitive case helps establish these connections effectively.

Tips for Using the Genitive Case in Genealogical Documents:

  1. Use Apostrophes Correctly:

    • Singular possessive: Add an apostrophe + “s” (the ancestor’s name).
    • Plural possessive: If the noun is plural and ends in “s,” add only an apostrophe (the ancestors’ records).

  2. Avoid Ambiguity:

    • Be specific when using “of” phrases to avoid confusion. For example:
      • Ambiguous: The will of John Smith’s son.
      • Clearer: The will belonging to John Smith’s son.

  3. Preserve Historical Accuracy:

    • When transcribing historical documents, replicate original genitive constructions as they appear (e.g., William Johnson his book, a historical form of possession).

  4. Use Proper Names Thoughtfully:

    • Example: Instead of saying the son of John Smith, you can write John Smith’s son, which is more concise and natural.

Genitive Case in Other Languages

If you’re working with genealogical records in non-English languages, it’s important to recognize that many languages use genitive forms differently:

  • Latin: Often used in church records; genitive endings indicate possession (Mariae filius = “Mary’s son”).
  • German: Uses genitive articles and endings (des Mannes Haus = “the man’s house”).
  • Slavic Languages: Russian, Polish, and others rely on inflected forms for genitives.

Understanding these structures can help you interpret foreign genealogical documents accurately.

Final Thoughts

Mastering the genitive case enhances clarity and professionalism in genealogical writing. Whether you’re drafting family histories or interpreting archival records, correctly using this grammatical tool ensures your work is precise and authoritative.

Where is the genitive case typically misused or confused?

The genitive case is often misused or confused in the following ways:

  1. Misplacing the Apostrophe: A common error is placing the apostrophe incorrectly, especially with plural nouns. For example:

    • Incorrect: the teachers lounge
    • Correct: the teachers’ lounge (indicating possession by multiple teachers) [1][5][8].

  2. Overusing the Genitive with Inanimate Objects: Using “-'s” for inanimate objects can sound awkward. For example:

    • Incorrect: the book’s pages (awkward in formal writing).
    • Preferred: the pages of the book [3][5].

  3. Confusion with Singular Nouns Ending in “S”: There is debate about whether to add just an apostrophe or “'s.” For instance:

    • Both boss’s car and boss’ car are accepted, though style guides differ [1][5].

  4. Plural Nouns Ending in “S”: Adding an extra “'s” after plural nouns is incorrect.

    • Incorrect: employees’s lunchboxes
    • Correct: employees’ lunchboxes [1][3].

  5. Ambiguity in Compound Nouns: Misplacing the possessive marker in compound nouns can confuse meaning.

    • Example: my sister-in-law’s car (correct placement) vs. the car of my sister-in-law (alternative phrasing) [5].

  6. Confusing Possessive Pronouns and Contractions: Mistaking possessive forms like “its” for contractions like “it’s.”

    • Correct: The dog wagged its tail. (Its shows possession) [8].

These errors highlight the importance of understanding when and how to use genitive constructions effectively.

Citations:
[1] Did you mean "s or 's"? Understanding the Correct Use of Genitive Case
[2] Genitive case - Wikipedia
[3] Genitive 's/ of - English class
[4] Common Apostrophe Errors - ProofreadingPal
[5] Saxon Genitive: The Use of Possessives in English | Proofreading
[6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMQAkEL_KWA
[7] Genitive Case
[8] Genitive Case: Explanation and Examples

4

Confusing - I followed a link on the translation part of the wiki that led me to Coding_for_translation. This is not the same page as Coding_for_translation_using_weblate, although they both share a lot of the same content.
The genitive examples are the same on both pages.

Both pages have links to each other under the “See Also” category.

In the end I have submitted the PR with my best guess and hope I don’t cause the translators too much trouble.

P.S. I did know what Genitive Case was - by dredging though memories of my high-school German. I learnt far more English grammar in the German lesson than in English.

5

We are in a transitional stage.

The Gramps core translation mangement has moved to the Weblate tool.

The addon process is still the older manual process. (3 Jan 2025 @Nick-Hall starts a gramps‐devel Mailing List thread about possibly using Weblate for addon translating.)

6

Some of our documentation is also out of date.

We do handle the translation of cases in Gramps. Have a look at the Lexeme class and the Localizing the date strings section in the wiki. However, this isn’t a solution for this issue. Although you can add “'s” in English, this approach won’t work for all languages.

1 Like
7

Added cross-references to “see also” subsections of the “Coding for translation” wiki pages

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