Maillist mode turned itself off... again!

This is the 2nd time I’ve discovered that maillist mode in a Discourse user’s preference has turned off autonomously.

The option remains selected but no messages are sent. The following process seemed to be a workaround last time: 1) Disable the preference, 2) save, 3) re-enable, 4) save

So starting a thread to see if a pattern appears. And so other Maillist mode users can be aware

  • eMail notices of Gramps discourse forum postings stopped between 27July2023 and 28July2023 for @emyoulation user. PM notices continued. (It went unnoticed since I also receive Gramps notices from GitHub, MantisBT, maillists, Discourse PMs )

Toggling the maillist mode didn’t work this time.

I changed the associated eMail account from a yahoo address to a gmail (Yahoo’s mail service has been growing worse and worse since it was reallocated to their AOL subdivision.)

A couple messages have trickled in since then. But the forum has been fairly quiet… so it is hard to evaluate.

Well, in that case, maybe you can use this to test. :slight_smile:

I know from lists on, where I read a dozen or so, that some moderators warn against marking group messages as spam, because that gets you unsubscribed automatically, and that automaton is a way to protect the list againt all sorts of nasty things, like message floods.

And maybe Yahoo is such a nasty thing in the sense that it marks some group messages as spam, for whatever reason, so that in the end, that’s what gets you expelled from the list. This is something that should be visible in some logs, if you know where those are.

I see the following in the logs:

Messages from temporarily deferred due to
unexpected volume or user complaints -; see (in reply to MAIL FROM command)

There is more that I won’t post publicly.

I don’t see any such messages from gmail.

Yes, I’ve been very careful to mark the items that Yahoo routed to the Spambox as “Not Spam” and only delete them with the regular tools from the Inbox. 2 senders from the Gramps-Project always end up in Yahoo spam regardless.

I think you only get options to look at logs and control the mail handling rules with their paid service.

Yup, Yahoo is nasty. Gmail is receiving maillist mode message without delays. And is giving threaded output too.

I wonder if that is a shared IP since we’re on shared Discourse hosting? (I don’t have a tracert on this device.)

If a bunch of sites’ mail are routed through it, there may be no good solution.

OK I get it. I once had problems with messages from you being marked as spam by Gmail, because you were sending those via the Gramps domain, and Google couldn’t verify their origin, because they were actually coming from Outlook or something. We solved that, some way, and in that case, what Google most probably complained about was this:

Your message failed authentication checks against your sending domain’s DMARC or DKIM policy.

Other reasons could be that Yahoo got too many problems with other groups hosted by Discourse. And I assume that we’re using a hosted service, and don’t have their software on our own server.

Same here; I stopped receiving mails from Discourse sent to my Yahoo! address almost a month or so ago.

Prior to that messages had gone down to a trickle and only a few messages would show up each day and I couldn’t follow a complete thread in my Yahoo! inbox. Around the same time Discourse sent me a message inform me that emails sent to my Yahoo! account were bouncing, and now they’ve just stopped completely. The bad thing about the forwarding failure alert from Discourse is that there’s no way to reply or confirm that your email address is correct; it’s just a one-way communication with no possibility of follow-up. BTW, the problem is only with messages from Discourse to Yahoo! all other messages reach my inbox just fine.

I’ve disabled/re-enabled the mailing list mode to see what happens.

Seems odd that people who subscribe to the Discourse group and set up forwarding would then go and mark messages as spam. Is there enough evidence that this is happening?

My assumption is that we are using a shared mailserver in Canada used by all the free hosted Discourse clients.

And, since yahoo independently started routing messages to Spam mailboxes (probably based upon volume of mail being sent), at least some of those people are letting the system clear those boxes. And their mail-client is reinforcing the dumped messages as Spam automatically.

So we are suffering a cumulative effect from all those clients.

The suggested ‘solution’ elsewhere is to try to get a dedicated IP and separate ourselves from the rest of the rabble.

@smurfix (Matthias U.) had a lot of good knowledge interpreting eMail issues the last time. Maybe he could be enticed to help?

A self-fulfilling prophecy? Yahoo! marking legitimate messages as spam and using that as evidence that the message is actually spam? :upside_down_face:

Just so. Almost a Kipling parable.

I don’t know, but with those old emails sent by Nick, via the developer’s mail list, it was Gmail that marked them as spam, not me. That was a different situation, technically speaking, but it shows that sometimes the mail providers are blocking group mails, not the users.

I also know, from other lists, that some users are too lazy to read unsubscribe instructions, or may not even see them, if they’re in the email footer, and their email client hides that. Some may then write unsubcribe messages to the list, if they’re old enough to remember that from older list software, and others may just hit the spam button, because they really have no other clue.

And if you have enough people of the latter kind, you will eventually see that selffulfilling prophecy.
And that is why some moderators on simply kick you off the list at the very moment that they see a spam warning coming back.

And in this particular case, it looks like Yahoo is part of the problem.

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