Eastern conventions for names

International Simplified Chinese
1

Perhaps we should start a conversation about how cultural name differences might be supported in Gramps.

Eastern cultures often places the surname first followed by the given name (e.g., 李伟 or Lǐ Wěi), unlike the Western given-name-first order (e.g., Wei Li), creating challenges for genealogy software like Gramps, which originated in Western contexts.

Why accommodate Eastern naming

Genealogy databases must support Eastern conventions to preserve cultural accuracy and usability for global users researching diverse ancestries. Gramps users handling Chinese diaspora trees often manage bilingual data—English legal names, Pinyin Romanization, and Hanzi—while ensuring proper sorting, searching, and export in GEDCOM format. Without accommodation, surname guessing misidentifies given names as surnames, reports display incorrectly, and cultural nuances like multiple aliases (literary names, regional variants) are lost.
see Gramps - open source genealogy - “attempting dual Chinese/Eng” on siyigenealogy.proboards

Gramps features for multiple forms

Gramps handles this through flexible name storage and display, storing surname and given name parts separately while allowing variants across orders and scripts.

Alternate Names

  • Add unlimited AKA, Nickname, Birth, or Married names in the Person editor’s Names tab.
  • Store Chinese surname-first (e.g., Surname: 李, Given: 伟) as Birth Name; Western given-first (e.g., Given: Wei, Surname: Li) or Pinyin as AKA or Preferred.
  • Supports Hanzi directly with Unicode; users export GEDCOM scripts to swap for Chinese-only views. reddit

Display As

  • Per-name override in the Name editor sets custom rendering, e.g., “%s %g” for surname-first or “%g %s” for given-first.
  • Global fallback via Edit → Preferences → Display → Name Format Editor lets you define templates like Title + Surname + Given for Eastern display across views.
  • Ideal for mixed trees: East Asian family shows surname-first; Western shows given-first. gramps.discourse

Surname Guessing Customization

  • Preferences → Import/Export → Surname Guessing toggles and sets rules, like assuming last name is surname (Western) or first name is surname (Chinese).
  • New localized options (e.g., bug 13953) allow culture-specific presets, preventing errors like treating Chinese given names as surnames during import. gramps.discourse
  • Combine with Alternate Names: Enter full Chinese name, let guessing parse correctly based on locale.

These features ensure a single tree supports Eastern/Western dual display without data duplication, vital for international collaboration. gramps.discourse

In Chinese, the normal order is surname first, then given name; it only tends to flip toward the Western order in explicitly Westernized or bilingual contexts.
Standard Chinese usage

In almost all Chinese-language contexts (Mainland, Taiwan, most of the diaspora), people write and say: surname → given name, for example 李小明 is “Lǐ Xiǎomíng,” with 李 as the family name.

Official documents, school records, IDs, and formal speech in Chinese follow this surname‑first order.

When you see Western order

You see the Western (given‑name‑first) order mainly when people intentionally adapt to Western norms:

  • When a person uses an English or “Western” given name: “Jack Ma” instead of “Ma Yun,” “Jackie Chan” instead of “Chéng Lóng.” In this case the English name is treated like a Western first name, so it comes first.
  • In Hong Kong, Singapore, and some overseas communities, a common pattern is “English name + surname + Chinese given name,” e.g. “Andy Lau Tak‑wah.” Here the leftmost part looks Westernized, but the Chinese components still keep the Chinese order.
  • In some English‑language media or older texts, editors may flip names to match Western expectations, though for Mainland Chinese this is now less common; modern standards usually keep the Chinese order even in English.

Practical rule of thumb

  • If the name appears in Chinese characters, assume surname‑first unless you have strong reason not to.
  • If the person presents their name to you in Western style (on a business card, in email, or introduces themselves as “Michael Chen”), follow the order they use.
  • If you’re unsure how to address someone formally, use “Mr/Ms + the first element” of a Chinese‑ordered name (e.g., Mr Chen for 陈伟) and “Mr/Ms + the last element” for a clearly Western‑ordered name (e.g., Mr Chen for Michael Chen).
2

Just as a reminder: Scandinavian and many other European countries also use “surname first” in a number of official and legal contexts.

  • In courts and legal documents, names are written as Surname, Given name.
  • In public archives, census records, and registries, the surname‑first format is standard.
  • Police, military, and other uniformed services routinely address people by surname first.
  • Several European countries (e.g., Hungary, the Czech Republic) use surname‑first in formal settings as a matter of tradition.

So this isn’t something unique to East Asia. We use surname‑first ourselves — just in different situations.

3

There are not only cultural differences but also time changes. Genealogy deals with passing time. Nothing can be considered frozen.

Taking the example of France, during the XIXth century, people were identified as Family Given1 … Given_last and call name was Given_last. Nowadays, it is Given1 … Given_last Family and call name is Given1. Therefore a single ordering does not render correctly an individual name.

What makes things difficult is the change did not result from a law or a formal agreed and shared decision. It took time to “percolate” across all society classes. It spanned several decades, starting in large cities and upper class during the last quarter of XIXth century, ending in the late 1920s, not proceeding at the same pace everywhere.

This is why, in addition to non-European cultures, I am studying a dramatic change in Name recording in Gramps.

First, the notion of given names opposed to “family” (inherited) names is not universal (I know of a former colleague, originating from India, who had no given name and several “family names” – surname-like). Therefore, I suggest to unify "given"s as just other components of names.

According to this idea, a component could have a prefix, a “name”, a suffix, an origin and a “qualifier”.
Could “origin” and “qualifier” by unified?

Prefix, name and origin are as present. Suffix is new. Prefix and suffix are concatenated to name without space.

The “qualifier” reports the “type” of the name: given (and one of these is specialised in “call”), nickname, surname, family nickname, …

The components can be separated by a “connector” like - (thus compounding names), von, zu, de, y, … A way should be provided to specify whether the “connector” is surrounded by spaces or not (e.g. the hyphen used to create compound names links both without spaces).

The components in the name record are entered according to the cultural rules and echoes as is.

Sorting will use keys based on qualifiers. For example, if a list is ordered by surname, then components tagged as “surnames” are used, in the order of the name. This is compliant with common rules where “connectors” such as von, de are ignored (unless they are not connectors but part of the name like articles, e.g. De Beers, Le Roux). In the latter case, it is likely that the article + noun will be stored together in a single name component.

I have not yet fully thought about the implications nor started to write a specification because I have more urgent matters. But this is maturing in my head.