Name sort order override?

Gramps 5.1.3 on Win10

Names are a complicated problem since the name display name is a concatenated form. I have my Display Preferences for the name format set to:
Title Surname, “Nickname” Given, Suffix

ex. Sgt. Horn, “Abram” Abraham, Sr.

This is excellent for clarity. However, I need it to sort without the Title and without the Nickname:
Surname, Given, Suffix

Is there a way to set Sort Order and Display differently?

Please see (and vote for!) feature request 11788.

You need to set a name sort override for each occurrence in your People list.

In the Person’s edit window, under the Names tab, edit the name with the Name Editor.

Change the Sort as from the default to another option. The same functionality allows to override the Display as. Any custom option you select can be created using the Preferences’ Display Name Editor

.

From the same feature request, I offered up having the Default Display be different than the Default Sort.

My default display is Title Given "Nickname" Surname, Suffix.

I am also a heavy user of the Surname Override. So for most cases, this works great where in the Grouped name list John Clark shows next to John Clarke. But I do have to override the sort when there are Titles so that Colonel John Clark displays with his kinsmen.

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Ouch! That’s fine for exception handling but it shouldn’t be the General Rule.

I suppose if I could do a mass update to a filtered list (like anyone with a Title or a Nickname) that it would work.

Otherwise, it cannot be a viable option.

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The first time I started with how I currently display and sort names with these exceptions, I used an uncompressed xml export and did a global search and replace based upon the Name’s Type. These exceptions are stored with the type in the xml. But this is not a solution I would recommend to the casual user. Editing the xml file is fraught with danger of corrupting the file.

And this only works if these exceptions have their own name Type that need to set. I use two, Title and Rank.

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Would a calculated field reduce the number of sort order exceptions?

Say, for instance, what if Gramps had a feature to generate a value and store it for sort order?

SoundEx (not very good for internationalized tool), Metaphone or Double Metaphone might alleviate the homonym issue.

Here are some interesting pages:

That’s interesting.

But it looks like it could use some fleshing out. I was recently reminded that voting has no effect in feature development.

If, on the other hand, we can pique the interest of a developer (by exploring the concept fully with intriguing examples of how the feature would be broadly worthwhile) that might get someone to invest the time.

If we do enough of the homework, then someone familiar with the Gramps API can implement it with fewer hours of investment.

I tried to be very specific. If I were any good at making a UI mockup, I would do so. I would like to make the request as clear and simple as possible. What details do you feel are missing?

The way I understand @GeorgeWilmes 's request (11788) is at the time a Display Name is created, a Sort order can be created for that display option. A tandem setting…

Display Given Surname, Suffix can have the preset sort Surname, Given Suffix. The problem with Given Surname, Suffix as a sort in the Grouped Name list, John B Clark sorts before just plain John Clark. Not bad, but not ideal. This allows a natural Display option and a proper sort.

But if I understand correctly, instead of Surname, Given Suffix as a sort add an option for GroupAsSurname, Given Suffix to account for the Surname override.

Yes, and as I explained in that comment in the issue, the grouped surname was just my particular use case, but the proposed solution is more generic. If others among you have some specific use cases that would benefit from the same general solution, please share them in the issue. Thanks.

Do you think that there ought to be an indicator for when an Override is applied to a row? So that a person knows to open the Alternate Name editor? Perhaps with a rollover that displays the override?

When I use the override I set all applicable names so both “Clark” and “Clarke” are set to “Clark (Clarke)”. In the Grouped lists it is very noticeable. Not so noticeable in other areas. I have filed a Feature to have the global Group As display in the name list along when an override is done on a case by case basis. They use different methods to affect the change.

https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=10319

Other cues? Haven’t thought about it (or the need).

grouped names

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