I’m currently in the process of migrating my genealogical data from Heredis to Gramps, with assistance from ChatGPT to ensure proper format and standards compliance.
As part of this process, I’ve tested both Gramps XML and GEDCOM 5.5. In particular, I used the ASSO tag to represent witnesses (e.g., godparents) in individual events such as births — a structure that is compliant with the GEDCOM 5.5 specification.
However, during import into Gramps (tested on version 6.0.3), these ASSO tags are reported as “recognized but not supported”, and the subordinate lines (TYPE, RELA, ROLE, NOTE, etc.) are ignored. This means witness information is lost, even though it is encoded correctly according to the standard.
This limitation makes it difficult to migrate data from Heredis to Gramps without loss of important relational context.
Is there any roadmap for improving GEDCOM import support for ASSO tags in individual events? Or perhaps a recommended workaround that preserves this kind of witness data?
It should viable to use it as example for scripts migrating Witness data found elsewhere.
However, it is critically important to note that a feature of this script is to FLUSH ALL the Associations for the Person. You will want to change that first.
Thanks, emyoulation.
If I understand correctly, it only concerns wedding witnesses, bur I want to transfer the witnesses for all events.
Indeed, the Gedcom 5.5 standard doesn’t define this notion of witnesses, but an AI will respond that “all” genealogy software programs have learned to work around the problem.
Of all the programs I’ve tried (Heredis, Geneatique, Ancestris, Webtrees, Elie, etc.), Gramps is the only one that doesn’t import them.
Having about 39,000 people in my genealogy, I can’t bring myself to lose all this information. Perhaps when will the v7 import standard be available?
Bertrand
But my thought was that having (Witness Role record writing in an Event type) code (that we can experiment with) would be a good start to a solution in the GEDCOM Import.
@ennoborg had been volunteering support for GEDCOM imports for the last several years. But he’s been MIA since January. (Do we have any other residents of Utrecht, Nederland that could do a wellness check on Enno?)
Besides, Enno preferred to keep the Gramps importer plugin as a ‘strict’ 5.5.1 parser. And use external tools and utilities to tweak the GEDCOM file instead.
As you said, Witnesses seem to have become a standard dialect feature and Gramps has supported that Role for years. It seems like it would be a good candidate for evolving the Importer and Exporter.
Yes, it’s all the more surprising since most (in fact, all the ones I know except Gramps) softwares (commercials or free) make a lot of effort to import “competing” GEDCOMs by accommodating (correcting) all known interpretations (non-conformities) with the GEDCOM standard.
This is why, during import, they ask to validate the origin of the GEDCOM in order to assign it the appropriate correction.
But today, Gramps seems less welcoming
Bertrand
We really need to do a collaborative single Tag Tweak to the GEDCOM import plug-in. So that it can be used as a tutorial which helps more single Tag improvements.
I’ve speculated before that the reason that importer plug-ins don’t evolve is that users only need them when they are new to the software. So it is also when they are too overwhelmed to pursue major enhancement projects.
And by the time they are familar with the Gramps ecology, they are drawn to other features to develop that would be of personal and direct benefit.
Hello,
And it becomes a vicious circle:
import, interface, etc… not updated,
so fewer new users,
so fewer programmers (for plugins)
a program that becomes increasingly programmer-only (or at least geeky)
so no need to update import, interface
so …
Bertrand
@Nick-Hall inserted something new in the last release plan to start breaking that vicious cycle.
User Experience enhancements were consistently getting short shrift on the roadmap.
Enhancements were limited to major and minor releases. So no UX improvements were permitted for maintenance releases. Only ones that fit the narrow definition of “bug” were corrected.
And features were in such flux for Major and Minor releases that UX changes would need re-working once things settled down. So they were deferred until later in the cycle. But by then feature lockdown was in effect. Or the pressure to release meant even “work in progress” planned features on the Roadmap were being cut. Starting the deferred work on UX became unthinkable.
Also, as you said, the development cycle and beta testing was only accessible to highly technical users. So the feedback loop excluded the general community.
The Gramps 5.2 beta test cycle started a more public-friendly approach. Installers were created for beta “releases” so that the feedback would cover a broader range of user skill levels.
And the 6.0 cycle added a quick follow-up release that had a high priority on UX maintenance items.
Hello SNoiraud
I think I’ve always tried to constructively express what’s holding me back from adopting this software, as I’ve done on other forums for other software (whether free or not), and this is the first time I’ve gotten the following response: love it or leave it!
Pls, is this the thinking of the Gramps community?
Bertrand
PS : Furthermore, I don’t understand the connection with free software: many free genealogy software programs (Ancestris, Elie, webtreese, etc.) try to bring together as many users as possible.
Serge has reasonable concerns that volunteer Developers shouldn’t be criticized for where they choose to invest their energy and time. Nor when they have strong opinions.
And worries that power diverted towards foolproofing or extra interface will bog down performance for power users.
He has also previously pointed out the dangers of trying to conform to what everyone else is doing. Gramps has never tried to compete to be the ONLY tool in your toolbox. We encourage people to use other tools collaboratively.
But he also develops the magnificent Narrated Website Report that generates an extensive and highly portable personal genealogy website. And the variety of Geography views. And regularly (and responsively) refines them based on feedback. Not to mention his volunteering to recover legacy Gramps databases for people who inherited research or who failed to follow proper backup.
Since Gramps is a volunteer project, we ask that the community cultivate a thick skin to critical responses. (But not insulting or rude ones. Those are unacceptable.)
Plus “fork the source and develop it yourself” is considered a positive response. It is not a dismissal of an idea… it is welcoming people to try to learn Python and join our developer community. It may even be read as saying the concept is interesting and they would like to see it developed but they don’t have the energy to spare.
Sorry, I had trouble translating.“Gramps is a free software project and community. We strive to produce a genealogy program that is both intuitive for hobbyists and feature-complete for professional genealogists.”
As I’m only “hobbyists” and not a programmer, I thought I could contribute by making comments that I thought (I hope) were constructive. I don’t think I criticized Serge or any other programmer. However, if my comments are considered criticism, or if anyone feels denigrated or even offended, I apologize.
As I’m still interested in certain features of this software, I will continue to follow this forum, avoiding participating in it to avoid creating unnecessary controversy.
Have a great day
Bertrand
English isn’t Serge’s native tongue either. And his 1st curmudgeonly response will often be strong and direct. Don’t take them personally. (Which is what I mean as developing a thick skin.)
And since there is no Human Resources holding the whip of a paycheck to create a homogenized milktoast corporate image, political correctness is not a priority.
Immediate replies are often negative and kneejerk responses. Then discussion explores the idea and possible approaches percolate in people’s minds. If you read some other replies, you see how that happens when each developers personality is added to a conversation. (Everyone has a trigger.)
You raised reasonable concerns and the participation is valuable to the whole community.
So please don’t pull back. Dive in! Argue your points!
Bertrand, I may have a workaround for your issue. I have written Supertool scripts that can convert the ASSO information to event references which Gramps supports.
So instead of for example
you will get
(the example is from the Heredis sample family tree). So essentially the ASSO object is replaced with EventRef and the direction of the references is reversed. Does that make sense to you?
Please let me know if you want to proceed with this experiment. I can send the scripts to you.
hello emyoulation,
For me, the notion of a hobby is linked to the notion of pleasure (as opposed to work ).
My pleasure is:
doing genealogical research,
meeting people at my genealogy club once a month,
discussing on forums (even in English ) about research methods and tools (I’ve discovered some very interesting ones on this forum), software, etc.
comparing opinions (which we sometimes know are irreconcilable),
and many other things unrelated to genealogy.(of course)
On the other hand, fighting (even verbally, and even with a compatriot) is not a pleasure for me; life is too short for that. I probably don’t have a thick enough shell;
I just don’t want to bother anyone!
I was already very shocked a few months ago by a discussion where one of the participants said that the Gramps community was already quite large enough… good for him ! and for the communauty ?
So I will stick to reading this forum (as I already said, the possibility of desktop-web synchronization seems unique and interesting to me), and I will answer questions out of politeness but will avoid making comments because there are forums where it is better to remain silent
) about research methods and tools (I’ve discovered some very interesting ones on this forum), software, etc.