Hi! I have a question and maybe suggestion about alternative places names.
A have a place, which has different number of nested places. For example:
before 1900 year CountryA → something else A → something else B → town X
after 1950 year CountryB ->something else C → town X
after 1960 year CountryB ->something else D → town X
after 1970 year CountryC ->something else D → something else C → something else F → town X
So, CountryA , CountryB, CountryC - are simple alternative names - no problem for Gramps.
Places something else A, and something else D are also alternative, but between 1950 and 1960 I no need this place. I would like have ability create a period for this place when it will not be shown in reports e.t.c. Maybe you could allow set empty place name (in this case ignore it in reports). Or add any lock for places for any periods…
The same case is between 1960-1970 for something else C. And the same for something else F which appear as a new nested structure only after 1970.
how can i achieve such a result? This is not so good idea to duplicate the same town X, its coordinates, church e.t.c. in multiple structures I think - this is a bit strange and it could be confused. Thanks a lot.
I am avoiding even thinking about putting work into how Place hierarchy evolves through time. I want to see what will done for the Place overhaul for 5.2 version. (Or maybe that will slip to the 6.0 version.)
Many entries close to your cases in my database, with locations in Elsass (german and french border)
I would like have ability create a period for this place when it will not be shown in reports e.t.c.
Like marking private for one period ?
I do not understand. If you do not want to display data information, does it mean that you have a date matching the period (i.e., between 1950 and 1960) and would like to avoid to use the place name set for events after 1950 (and before 1960) ?
If so, if your event date is 1955, just set a place name ‘before 1955’ and ‘after 1955’ and default place (fallback) name will be used.
All that matters is… does the place name attached to an event display in a report or the Gramps’ person/family event list as you, the user, want it displayed. How you set up the place database to create that displayed place name is not seen by others.
With that said, when using after <date> or before <date> as date modifiers, they are open ended, whereas from <date1> to <date2> for places sets the timeframe when a place’s name was true for those, and only those, dates.
If there is something specific about your example (which was confusing to understand) a real-world place would be easier to help setup for you. After all, there would not be anything confidential about the name of a place throughout time.
These limits to date modifiers come into play for age calculations and filtering. For setting place dates the date modifiers have a true literal effect.
I have altered my date limits from 50 years to 5 years. In a place record like a cemetery, I will have its enclosed by records to a street address with after 1900 with a second enclosed by record pointing to the city/town with no date restriction. Putting a burial record with the date 25 Nov 2022 will display the place record with the actual address included.
Ukraine was a state within a larger entity between the dates shown. Any event date not within these ranges will only display Ukraine and not go to another hierarchical record.
Think about a date path through the hierarchy. For any event date, what is the path Gramps should take. And the same applies to Alternative place names.
Notice… between 1917 and 1919 there is no date path beyond Ukraine in the example.
would be directly enclosed by CountryB, with no additional layer in between. Is that right?
some layers can be hidden/shown depending on date. This is real case when the same place have different number of layers. But I can not hide “something else C” and then later show again with another name, right? So, the trouble is in different chain length: more , then less, then again more …
As I can imagine how it works on your side, I can propose how to implement it:
All you need - allow empty place name (for alternative name). And dont add layer to the path if name is empty into reports.
Another way:
Add lock-button for alternative places. This button will hide this place in reports, but not hide all its nested places if they are not locked.
This option sounds better as for me - more user-friendly ))
The one report I know that does not like a place record made Private is the NarrWeb site. I recommend NOT doing this.
What you should do is add another enclosed by record to the next record lower in the hierarchy (Kobaл…) that for the time period from 1800 to 1805 goes directly to the next higher record (Πoлta…) jumping over the selected record (Πиpяt…)
So, @DaveSch I tried to use locations as you said, but I think - it is really inconvenient, impractical, I have to duplicate the end place several times. It also breaks the statistics in the database because the same locality is repeated several times. For me it looks like the as the same place, but for the database duplicated places with the same names have different ids.
PS: maybe I’ve not understand enough how it works? Do you have some db examples or video how it works for more difficult places hierarchy? Thanks
Think of each place record as a spot on the Earth. As you traverse up in the hierarchy that spot becomes larger, and a larger spot may encompass many smaller spots.
Using the Alternative names tab, you can account for any changes of the name of that spot on the Earth.
The Enclosed by tab holds the records of the next larger record for the various time frames. Each record within the hierarchy can have their own name changes as well as their own enclosed by records.
With various changes in names and various paths through the hierarchy the same base place record will display the proper name for the date of the event.
@DaveSch Only one thing… Why alternative name not work here? Should show “Російська Імперія” in range between 1721 to 1917-03-01. I tried uk, ru and empty language code. My system language is ukrainian. Maybe this is bug. Thanks.
At the end of the Name field is the icon to “Invoke place name editor” to set its date information and the language setting if needed. This name entry is validated first. If there is no date information, it will return as True for any event.
In your entry, there is now (with the Russia entry date after 1917-03-01) no information for an event with date before 1721 or an event with no date If an event with a date of 1700 will return a question mark ( ? ) because no entry will be valid.
