User Manual - Nederlands language issues

[GaryGriffin]

I am working on creating an offline Gramps User Manual in PDF format. Part of this process is to do one translated version as an example as well as the English version. While working on the (randomly chosen) nl language version, I found a few inconsistencies in page naming. I dont know dutch, so I cannot fix these wiki page names correctly. The issues are solely on the name of the wiki pages, not the content of the pages (except the ToC). If they are resolved, the PDF User Manual creation will be more automate-able.

Starting with the main page Nl:Gramps 5.1 Wiki Handleiding - Gramps and reviewing the ToC, the issues:

1. Reports (main, part 1, part 2) pages are named Nl:Gramps-5.1_Handboek_-_Verslagen, but is inconsistent with all of the other page names, which are Nl:Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Handleiding_-_Verslagen.
2. All other pages in the ToC except Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Manual_-_User_Directory/nl are a redirect to a page which is named starting with Nl:Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Handleiding .
3. The main page ToC does not include the Reports (main) page, but has a chapter-level for part 1 and section-level for parts 2-7. This is chapter 14 in the ToC.

[ennoborg]

I may be able to help, but I’m not sure whether I fully understand what you want.

[emyoulation]

@Jan is the reviewer for the code translation. Maybe he can get us in touch with Herman Viaene (aka Sigmo on the wiki or @hviaene on Discourse) or Erikdr or @PeterR (Peterroos) to help with the Dutch wiki pages?

[GaryGriffin]

I guess I was looking for someone to

1. Rename the following pages and all references to them. They should be named starting with Nl:Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Handleiding_-_ . Notice that the 1st item incorrectly uses Gramps-5.1 instead of the normal Gramps_5.1.

Nl:Gramps-5.1_Handboek_-_Verslagen 
Nl:Gramps_5.1_Handboek_-_Verslagen_-_deel_1
Nl:Gramps_5.1_Handboek_-_Verslagen_-_deel_2

I am guessing they would be renamed as follows, but not sure.

Nl:Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Handleiding_-_Verslagen
Nl:Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Handleiding_-_Verslagen_-_deel_1
Nl:Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Handleiding_-_Verslagen_-_deel_2

2. Change wiki page Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Manual_-_User_Directory/nl to be a redirect to a page with a name starting with the string Nl:Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Handleiding_-_ and then the dutch version of ‘User Directory’. It should contain the contents of the current page.

[ennoborg]

OK, I get it, and your guess is right, so if you can, please make that change, meaning #1.

For #2, you can use the word Gebruikersmap, as shown in the link to Appendix D on the main page.

I prefer to not get involved with this too much, other than reacting to this thread, because I’m still trying to figure out how I may assist with the installer for 5.2 AIO.

[emyoulation]

I’m curious how the Weblate translation files can be applied to to something like the script Gary is building.

If the Help links inside Gramps correctly re-route to the Nederlands wiki translation pages, it seems like all the base URL (https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php) and wikipages already should have translation equivalents.

The Intrapage anchors are another animal entirely. (I’m hoping that we can keep English <div> and <span> IDs even on translated page where subheadings can be entirely different.)

[GaryGriffin]

@emyoulation

I’m curious how the Weblate translation files can be applied to something like the script Gary is building.

Unlikely to be able to leverage Weblate at all. It is dependent on the exact syntax of the referenced web page name. If the pagelink is a redirect, it needs to process the redirected page.

The generation of a consolidated PDF is using all of the existing content of pages and just modifying navigation and some format cleanup.

If the Help links inside Gramps correctly re-route to the Nederlands wiki translation pages, it seems like all the base URL (Gramps) and wikipages already should have translation equivalents.

Unfortunately, many languages have only some of the pages translated. And still default to english version if there is no translation. Some pages reference the page with the language suffix and that page is either a redirect or a real page.

For example, the Nederlands page for the Manage Family Trees chapter is at

https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Manual_-_Manage_Family_Trees/nl&redirect=no

which redirects to :
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Nl:Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Handleiding_-_Stambomen_beheren

But the Bahasa Indonesian reference (language code = id) just links to the default english version as there is no translated version of that specific page.

The Intrapage anchors are another animal entirely. (I’m hoping that we can keep English <div> and <span> IDs even on translated page where subheadings can be entirely different.)

Unfortunately, Mediawiki generates the HTML ids from the headings, and these are in the language of the page. So when a consolidated User Manual is created, it will use these same existing link ids.

[Nick-Hall]

You can create an anchor in a link:

==<span id="Alternate Section Title"></span>Section heading==

See the Internal links scetion of the mediawiki manual. Look at the “Setting an anchor for incoming links” example.

[hviaene]

I’m willing to see what I can do on this subject. But I have nothing to do with Sigmo. That is a person with a first name “Harmen” and that’s not a typo. He is most probably from the Netherlands.

[Jan]

Hi Brian,

Unfortunately, I have never been in contact with the user manual translators, as I could never find an email address from them. So I’m glad Herman showed up here.

@GaryGriffin, currently, the manual in Gramps consists of nothing but a link to the Gramps website. Is it your intention to integrate the pdf into Gramps?

[emyoulation]

Once offline manuals exist again, opportunities can be explored about integration.
But Gary is doing a lot of work to preserve the navigation anchors inside the single page HTML and the PDF. It opens a lot of opportunities.

The 5.2 development cycle is past that kind of decision point.

Regardless of integration, a single multi-chapter document has proven MUCH more effective in searching than the wiki. You don’t have to wade through old revision and other language page hits!

[emyoulation]

@hviaene

do with Sigmo. That is a person with a first name “Harmen” and that’s not a typo.

Thanks, I was having to do a lot of guessing from the wikipage edit history. We don’t have a curated list of maintainers for the wiki. (It is difficult enough curating a list of which languages have translated pages!)

[emyoulation]

@GaryGriffin

Unlikely to be able to leverage Weblate at all. It is dependent on the exact syntax of the referenced web page name. If the pagelink is a redirect, it needs to process the redirected page.

It may entail some work tracking down re-directs and eliminating them. Of course, the first step would be assessing the scale of the issue.

I’ve always wanted to get a list of the wiki URLs used by Gramps. It would be useful to refine them. (The Gramps Glossary is slowly becoming an index to the feature introductions… in addition to being a simple definition of alphabetized terms. We have fixed hundreds of those frustrating spots in the manual that merely said that Gramps could do something … without even hinting how to do that item.)

[prculley]

Take care if you decide to rename pages. Gramps creates URLs for the Help buttons programmatically for all the builtin plugins. So you cannot just change the name without adding a redirect from the URL Gramps uses.
For Reports, Tools, and Gramplets (at least) Gramps creates the URL from several strings.

The first is the base URL "http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title="

Then comes “Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Manual” (or the current major version like 5.2)

Then is the plugin type: “Reports”, “Tools”, “Gramplets”

Then is a language code: “/de” etc. Currently only “nl”, “fr”, “sq”, “mk”, “de”, “fi”, “ru”, “sk” are supported (see gramps/gui/display.py “MANUALS” at about line 45 for code)
For English and other languages not in this list no language code is attached.

Then is a ‘#’ followed by the translated plugin name.

Example:
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Manual_-_Reports#Family_Descendant_Chart
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Manual_-_Reports/de#Abstammungstafel_der_Familie

For addons with their own help buttons, if the gpr.py has a help_url it gets used.
In this case, if the help_url starts with “http”, it gets used without modification. If it does not, then the URL is assembled.

First is the base URL "http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title="

Then is the help_url from the gpr file.

Then is a language code: “/de” etc.

Example:
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=BirthdaysGramplet/de

Looking at the final web pages, it is apparent that some of these URLs are getting redirected to other pages, but that is all happening at the wiki.

[GaryGriffin]

@Jan

Hi Brian,

Unfortunately, I have never been in contact with the user manual translators, as I could never find an email address from them. So I’m glad Herman showed up here.

@GaryGriffin, currently, the manual in Gramps consists of nothing but a link to the Gramps website. Is it your intention to integrate the pdf into Gramps?

My goal is to assemble all of the existing English User Manual pages into a single PDF that can be used offline and/or printed. That PDF will maintain all links to references within the User Manual pages. And have an Outline that can be used for chapter navigation. So users without an internet connection can effectively use the full User Manual.

This does require me to ‘fix’ some of the existing wiki pages where they diverge from a template. Such as: the nav bar and the language bar in the wrong order; using H1 (=text=) other than the title of the page (to generate a consistent Table of Contents); fix bad links in navigation bar; use consistent wiki page naming. Otherwise, I am not changing any content on the wiki pages.

The next step is to do one of the translated languages. For this I have randomly chosen ‘nl’. To that end, I wanted to fix some of the issues and asked for (and was given) assistance with the language.

Once ‘en’ and ‘nl’ are completed, there should be a reasonable process on how to do this that can be followed for other languages if desired.

I hope that clarifies my goals. At some point I will be looking for others to review the ‘en’ and ‘nl’ PDFs before publishing on the Gramps site.

[GaryGriffin]

@emyoulation

@GaryGriffin

Unlikely to be able to leverage Weblate at all. It is dependent on the exact syntax of the referenced web page name. If the pagelink is a redirect, it needs to process the redirected page.

It may entail some work tracking down re-directs and eliminating them. Of course, the first step would be assessing the scale of the issue.

It is NOT my intention to change or eliminate re-directs in existing wiki pages. The reality is that many of the User Manual wiki pages have a redirect. I am only looking to change a few nl ones that have inconsistent naming. And this is not required. Maybe I should pause that and revisit once I have test-able PDFs.

TLDR: My conversion process has to consider that the existing pages might use an anchor to a translated page either by appending the language to the english page name (which may or may not be a redirect) or having the reference to a translated page. The conversion needs to work for all these cases. But that will be invisible once the PDF is created. And will not change any of the existing wiki pages.