Hi,
So i have two regions that merged into one region during the 19th century and I’m trying to replicate that in Gramps 5.1.2 and I do not really know how to do that. I’ve tried to put the new place as surrounding and added dates but i’m not really happy with it… So i’m putting the question to you, any tips?
When you have two locations that merge into a single named location you actually create three records. Place A, Place B and Place A-B.
You then have to deal with the smaller locations within Place A and Place B.
Place A1 will have two Enclosed By records.
Place A-B with the date "after <merge date>"
Place A with no date information
Place B1 will have two Enclosed By records.
Place A-B with the date "after <merge date>"
Place B with no date information
Places A, B, and A-B can be Counties or Districts with A1and B1 being cities/towns. Or A, B, and A-B could be cities with A1 and B1 being a church, cemetery or an actual address. The principle is the same. Before the merge date, a vital record could point you to Place A or Place B. After the merge date, the same document will never refer to A or B, only A-B because A and B no longer exist.
Oboy. I’m seriously disoriented now.
That felt like a word problem on a trigonometry test question where I am supposed to “show my work” using common core math.
Which is why I also added the real world example of Dover and Foxcroft merging to become the single Dover-Foxcroft. I suppose I could have used Buda and Pest merging but I do not have them in my database. Dover, Foxcroft and Dover-Foxcroft are very active places in my family.
Since I already gave the Place A1 example, here is an example of Place B1.
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May be another exemple with 3 towns that have been merged into 1 new in two times:
(après = after, de-à = from-to)
Top one Bagnoles-de-l’Orne-Normandie (B-O-N) doesn’t exist before 2000, when created from Tessé and Bagnoles-de-l’Orne which was towns depending from Orne departement. Then in 2016 a 3rd one joined B-O-N : Champosoult
Bagnoles-de-l’Orne was created in 1913, but I don’t know from which other places.
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Okay i think I’ve got it! So @DaveSch in the example of Buda and Pest merging into Budapest I have school 1 in Buda. I then make it so that the school is enclosed by Budapest after 1873 when they merged and otherwise it is enclosed by Buda? Do i need to specify that before 1873 it was enclosed by Buda or is that redundant?
Say if Buda consisted of two merged cities, A and B, before i then need to add a third enclosure specifying which of the two cites A or B it was in or would I just do the same as above for Buda?
This might not be correct to ask another question that kind of related but does anyone know it is possible for a place to have two different types for two different periods? For example Finland was once a dukedom in Sweden but is now independent. If i want to assign the status of dukedom to Finland but only during the time it was swedish do I need to add a whole seperate finland oris it somehow possible? Another example is the Soviet Union and its constituant countires.
Correct. The locations within the merged places found themselves residing in the new location overnight. The school was in Buda on 1872-12-31 and in Budapest on 1873-01-01. And taking it to the next level in your hypothetical, the school could have been in Da on 1849-12-31 then in Buda from 1850-01-01 to 1872-12-31 and in Budapest after 1873-01-01.
The three places, Buda, Pest and Budapest do not have to account for the merge. Buda and Pest just ceased to exist and the next day Budapest came into being. It is the places within the merged place you must be enclosed by the various cities.
I try to avoid using “before ” in the place enclosed by places. Just remember, Gramps will work down the list of places in the enclosed by list. When it comes to an enclosed by place that is valid for the date of the event it will take that hierarchy path.
An event with no date will select the earliest date in the list. Think 0001-01-01. So if all you know is that your relative attended that school in Budapest but not the year, the school will appear as “School, Buda” (or “School, Da”) which may not be to your liking. I will often set up the enclosed by like
Budapest – after 1873
Buda – from 1200 to 1873 (I just used 1200 as an example)
Budapest – no dates entered
So if there is a date for the event, Buda or Budapest will be selected for the hierarchy. If there is no date, it will use the the bottom Budapest default.
Here is an example.
Roxbury was annexed by the city of Boston and ceased to exist as a city becoming a neighborhood within Boston. But throughout the various time spans it had various hierarchies that were valid. The last Suffolk Co with no date is the default I want displayed when there is no date for an event.
Currently, these is no way to change the Type based upon time spans. This has been requested and should be available in 5.2. It will function just like Alternative Names having time spans that can change the name of the location.
Users doing detailed place studies have asked for the functionality. Personally, I view the entire Place database as a tool for doing the genealogy. I send a report to a cousin, they do not care what Type I have assigned Finland.
For a place like the Soviet Union, or The United Kingdom, the component states will have a time span "from <date> to <date>" when Russia was a part of the Soviet Union. Outside those dates, any place just stops at “Russia”
Okay thanks for the confirmation. That’s how I did it but just wanted to check if it was possible!
Thanks for all the help!
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