Add-ons can give a bad initial impression of Gramps

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1

I was on the Fedora Linux (FedoraProject.org) repository and saw the following Review:

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As an experienced user of Gramps, that opinion didn’t make any sense to me. Then I installed Gramps on a fresh Fedora setup and some of the frustration became understandable. (Although I still wonder where he got the impression that plug-ins were needed before it was at ALL usable.) The repository only has 15 reviews for Gramps. So they carry a bit more weight than you might expect.

There are now too many add-ons from which to pick and choose… and with insufficient information to make anything approaching an informed choice. So the already dazed new users just install 'em all. And on the next launch’s plugin registration, the cascade of prerequisite errors that make Gramps look totally unusable.

One also occurs before the Theme selection is applied… so if you’re running in Dark Mode, after that 1st error is dismissed, the whole look of Gramps suddenly changes(from default Light to the user-selected Dark). It looks extra flakey.

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2

Your link does not work and my Googlefu is failing me, can you provide the direct link?

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I only have a few hours with the Gnome “Software” app. Haven’t discovered how to share a repository address. Or even how to actually see ALL 15 reviews. The “All Reviews” only shows 5 of the 15.

The GUI seems to hide a lot of info.

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4

Ok so the reviews don’t come from a website! ( This link has no response on that same question!)

They appear in the Gnome Software Center that is shared by all Linux distributions that use Gnome desktop and not specific tofor Fedora itself! ( Looks like I’m wrong and each Linux distribution is separate but store the reviews and rating using ODRS( GNOME Open Desktop Ratings).)

Somebody asking to Add method to remove and/or update a review to the Gnome Software center

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I was more concerned that the negative review has some justification.

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?? Yes same as me, just got caught up looking for a way to reply that didn’t involve installing Fedora, hence why I linked to the issue to allow removing or updating a review ?

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7

It probably has, and you can find a lot more on the GenSoftReviews site, made by Louis Kessler:

https://www.gensoftreviews.com/?p=286

Here’s what I see when I try the official way to install Gramps on LMDE 5. That’s Linux Mint Debian Edition. You may see different results for the mainstream Mint 21, which is based on ubuntu.

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And I agree with you on the subject of add-ons. I often choose to add or update all, and in that case, errors are guaranteed.

A possible solution might be to categorize or even prioritize add-ons in a way that makes sense to new users, so that it’s easy to select extra reports, and Gramplets that don’t have evil dependencies, and avoid the more complex ones, like database backends.

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8

On the other hand, the GUI for the Gnome Software Center gives lots of information. But you have to know what to search for and you can only install one-by-one. (I will probably be installing extensions for WEEKS in this fresh Fedora!)

It is handy to be able to install en masse.

Nick mentioned enhancing the spec and having non-core Prerequisites in the .gpr.py registration files. Then have that be part of the info that cascades through to be available to the Plug-in Managers. With that, Gramps could make the default be where it filters out any Add-on with ANY Prerequisites. (A really smart Plugin Manager might even filter out only those where the specific Prerequisites weren’t installed yet… or have some Prerequisite managment features.)

Advanced users could broaden the scope from the defaults.

It would also register as ‘pre-release’ (alpha/beta) or release … maybe even leverage the existing ‘stable/unstable’ level ‘status’ registration. (Although I suspect developers will resist using the ‘unstable’ status on the general principle that it is too prejudical.) So the default might be at the more restrictive ‘stable’ filter level. More advanced wanting to explore the “bleeding edge” could broaden the scope.

And a target audience registration was discussed for the influencing installer too… so that newbie users aren’t prematurely exposed to expert or developer level add-ons.

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I understand what you’re saying, but most users don’t know what to search for, and as a user, I have zero sympathy for errors that can be predicted, like here:

Schermafdruk op 2023-02-07 17-35-09
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This is the result of a select all on my laptop with Mint 21, and I hope that you recognize the add-ons, even though their names appear in Dutch. When I install these Gramps tells me that there were errors, but there is no way to figure out what these errors are, not even when I start Gramps from the terminal.

In this case, developers know, or should know, that the PostgreSQL dependencies are not installed on most machines, and they should also know what the Network Graph add-on depends on. It is something that I can’t see, as a user.

You´d see more add-ons here, if I hadn´t installed graphviz and goocanvas after earlier errors that were slightly more informative, but I could only deal with those, because I know how to work with Synaptic, and I also know the name of the goocanvas component that Gramps depends on. But I’m not your average user.

In this particular case, where all the other add-ons are on my machines, it looks like I’m stuck with these 3 uninstallable add-ons forever, and I really don´t like that. I may be able to install the first and second by installing PostgreSQL, but I don´t want to install that, and I don´t want to be bothered with it either. And for the Network Graph, I want to know what’s needed, and I can’t easily figure that out either.

It would be nice to know how many errors you get on a fresh Fedora.

P.S.: I deliberately put on my user hat here. I’m sure that, as a develope, I can figure out what the Network Graph needs, but for the sake of this discussion, I really don´t want that.

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10

I would add, as a reasonably experienced user, that I think we have an issue that somehow or other we need better explanation of the intended functionality of most if not all add-ons, before a user makes the decision to install them. I generally avoid installing any add-on unless I think I understand what it is intended to do. I probably miss out on some awesome functionality because of that conservatism, but I possibly also miss out of some major disappointments. When I trial it, if it appears not to do what I thought it was supposed to do, I generally uninstall it.

While I understand that devs can do some amazingly creative and useful things to provide extensions to the basic code, it is actually a problem of the kind Brian refers to when any particular example is insufficiently documented and turns out to disappoint, or to fail altogether, or to produce counter-intuitive results. I think we need to work harder somehow to document what any particular add-on is intended to do, before we list it. I cannot even start to file a bug report if I do not understand what the intention of the dev was. Too many of the add-ons in the big long table are not even remotely self-explanatory in their description.

BTW, as well as the issues Brian & Enno have mentioned, is there any particular reason why the add-ons are not even listed in any particular order [e.g. alphabetically] in the wiki? It just makes it even harder for a user to navigate to add-ons that might, or might not, help them to be more productive. I recently wasted quite a bit of time looking for an add-on that someone had mentioned here on Discourse, but took ages to find it, only then to conclude that I had no idea what it would really do or not do, so I stayed well away from it.

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11

The wiki table dynamically sorts by clicking any column’s header.

The content is added in manually. We haven’t even managed to make it complete or harmonize the listings, let alone make them alphabetical! (See the Discussion/Talk page for that wiki page that lists add-ons that have defied being listed. And the names of the Addons are NOT harmonized between the GUI Installation listing for Preferences vs. Plugin Manager vs. the .gpr.py file vs. the wiki list vs. the wiki page for the addons vs. the README.md files. When you layer the weblate & manual wiki Translations on top of that mess, the chance of everything becoming consistent is unimaginable.)

One of the things that the WikiContributors are hoping for in the next version is enough info in the AddOns list in each repository to write a Gramps addon report to generate a comprehensive wiki table content. That could allow us to overwite a file and MediaWiki could “Transclude” that file into the addon list section of the Third Party Addons page.

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It’s painful. 6 modal warning/error dialogs following installing addons en masse via the ALL option:

Installation Errors
The following addons had errors: PostgreSQL (1.0.13), SharedPostgreSQL (0.1.1), Network Chart (0.0.25)
Close

Only option is “Close”, no indication that these are not fatal errors.

Done downloading and installing addons
141 addons were installed. If you have installed a "Gramps View’, you will need to restart Gramps.
Close

Only option is “Close” Since users were not instructed to look for “Gramps View” before installing AND nothing is so labeled, the restart instruction is only meaningful to experienced users who probably already know when they need to restart.

Place Coordinate Gramplet Plugin
Failed to load the required module gi.repository.GeocodeGlib.

OK Don’t show again

Graphview Failed to Load

Graphview is missing python modules or programs.
must be installed

For now, it may be possible to install the file manually. See
http://gramps=project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Graph_View
To dismiss all future Graphview warning click Dismiss.Goocanvas 2 or 3(http://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/GooCanvas)

Continue Dismiss

The destination link ares not edifying. Link for Graphview prerequisites (doesn’t address how to install) SHOULD be https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Addon:Graph_View#Prerequisites

The Goocanvas prompt and link are completely mystifying.

LifeLineChartView Plugin

Failed to load the required module svgwrite version 1.4.

Is is not possible to use LifeLineChartView without this module. You can either unistall this plugin, or download the module.

Cancel Download module

LifeLineChartView Plugin

Failed to load the required module life_line_chart version 1.7.7.

Is is not possible to use LifeLineChartView without this module. You can either unistall this plugin, or download the module.

Cancel Download module

5 dialogs during each restart of Gramps

Place Coordinate Gramplet Plugin
Failed to load the required module gi.repository.GeocodeGlib.

OK Don’t show again

Graphview Failed to Load

Graphview is missing python modules or programs.
must be installed

For now, it may be possible to install the file manually. See
http://gramps=project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Graph_View
To dismiss all future Graphview warning click Dismiss.Goocanvas 2 or 3(http://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/GooCanvas)

Continue Dismiss

LifeLineChartView Plugin

Failed to load the required module svgwrite version 1.4.

Is is not possible to use LifeLineChartView without this module. You can either unistall this plugin, or download the module.

Cancel Download module

LifeLineChartView Plugin

Failed to load the required module life_line_chart version 1.7.7.

Is is not possible to use LifeLineChartView without this module. You can either unistall this plugin, or download the module.

Cancel Download module

Failed loading view

The view Graph View did not load and reported an error.

Goocannvas 2 or 3(Projects/GooCanvas - GNOME Wiki!)is required for this view to work.

If you are unable to fix the fault yourself then you can submit a bug at My View - Gramps - Bugtracker – Free Genealogy Software or cantact the view author (gary.burton@zen.co.uk).

If you do not want Gramps to try and load this view again, you can hide it by using the Plugin Manger on the Help menu.

Close

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Yes, I know that. And I found that for the LifeLineChartView plug-in, the Download module command works, but there’s no feedback when it succeeds. That’s at least what I found on Windows,

For PostgreSQL, I would strongly suggest, that we don’t offer that plugin in this way, and let the users only download that if they really want it.

For the others, all prompts are indeed useless, just like you wrote, because the packages that you need are all available in most Linux repositories, so there’s no need to builld those. That’s at least what I know for Mint, both for LMDE 5 (Debian based), and Mint 21 (based on ubuntu). On Mint, I can download all of them using the Synaptic package manager, but even with that, it’s not always obvious which version you need. I figured that out for all of them, i.e. for geocodelib, goocanvas, and a few others, but the actual package names that I need on Mint may be different from the ones that you need on Fedora.

Do you have Synaptic on Fedora?

P.S. on Mint, and ubuntu, all dependencies can also be installed with apt.

14

We are haring off down a rabbit hole with the question about Synaptic and with the list of specific installation errors. And the comments by @Nick-Hall (elsewhere) about his plans to expand the Gramps Registration indicates that he’s planning methods to address some of these concerns. Which means we might be beating another dead horse.

But “no” for Synaptic on Fedora… or at least not that I’ve found so far. The GUI tool for the default desktop (Gnome) on Fedora is Gnome Software. And it is more like an App Store than a Utility. (Searching for “Synaptic” on Gnome Software finds nothing.) See:
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/164355/is-there-an-equivalent-of-synaptic-graphical-ui-for-fedora

No doubt that the desktops for other Fedora Spins will have other options.

15

I understand what you say, about that rabbit hole, but until @Nick-Hall has realized his plans, I think it’s helpful to create package lists that solve the issues that we know about for the OS’s that we know about, and update the wiki, or create separate threads here, for Debian, Fedora, Mint, ubuntu, etc.

What I mean is that for ubuntu and Mint, I know the exact names of the packages needed, so that they can all be installed with apt as described on this page:

https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/GEPS_029:_GTK3-GObject_introspection_Conversion#Ubuntu_12.10_.28Linux_Mint_14.29

And although I work with Mint 21 now, the process is still the same, and although this is a developer’s page, for a change that’s been made, users do need some of the packages that are listed here, i.e. gir1.2-geocodelib-1.0, gir1.2-goocanvas-2.0, and gir1.2-osmgpsmap.

And on Debian, Mint, and ubuntu, they can all be installed with a single command:

sudo apt-get install gir1.2-geocodelib-1.0 gir1.2-goocanvas-2.0 gir1.2-osmgpsmap

You might need yum to do the same on Fedora, and another one for openSUSE, but I bet they’re all single line solutions, which we can put on-line somewhere soon.

I recommend this, because it may take a long time before Nick’s fixes trickle down to the official repositories that many users rely on.

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Before I apply the geocodelib package, I would like to find out why Plugin Manager Enhanced is complaining about the library being missing. Particularly curious because it is before I have installed ANY addon that might need it.

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I get it, but I don’t see such complaints here, so they might be specific to Fedora.

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18

No, because packages use a different format: .rpm instead of .deb.

The “standard” CLI tool is dnf. There are various frontends for it like the Gnome Software or Discover under KDE Plasma desktop. Personally, I prefer dnfdragora GUI frontend because it allows search requests and better selective choice.

There is a single package gramps which comes without add-ons. There are no addon packages. This means they must be downloaded from the Gramps site.

I don’t understand the frenzy about Fedora and add-on loading failure. I have added nothing to the raw Gramps package. I don’t intend to install extra add-ons until I have fully mastered the raw functionalities (although I have used Gramps for decades, I still discover “better” ways of doing my tasks and features I neglected up to now). I consider that downloading an application and immediately installing all available plugins before having tested basic functionality is a huge mistake.

Gramps has now a long development history. It solved problems met while using it, leading to deep thoughts about what is genealogical data. Because of that, you can’t say data entry is “intuitive”. It requires some introspection about what you want to do and what you what to show, before you begin to record anything. You must have some schema in you head, some “life rope” to guide your progression.

Negative initial impressions may come from this lack of questioning. If people have only half an hour available to experiment the application, they will inevitably conclude Gramps is not “intuitive”, complex and not appealing at all due to its UI. But in fact it is very complete.

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19

Not a frenzy… just a newbie to Fedora.

The problems above aren’t with the Gramps package, it installs just fine. (Although the License button for the Gramps About box on my system complains that the GNU GPL license file cannot be found. Maybe it needs to be added to the Fedora base install?)

The problems start after installing add-ons… and the installations (and their overabundance of not-terribly-helpful error dialogs) affect all OS variants. But the corrective workflow varies.

Since I’m learning Fedora, Enno is encouraging me to document the Fedora corrective workflow. (Unfortunately I’m a newbie there, my Windows & Mac troubleshooting tools & experience don’t apply.)

20

Yes. I expect to have some time again in a couple of days.

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