Anyway, back to the thread orginal purpose.
I see the wiki mentions this together with the thing that only have a linux guide (that I dont know how to do yet if I do not use linux)(tmg2gramps)
EDIT: I think I might have found it and looks like it cost money or something.
why donât you just download the free version of rootsmagic and try to import the TMG database directly, after that its easy to export it from RM to a gedcom that you can import to a Gramps DBâŚ
i generallly prefer the stability of alphabetical order. there should be a list of thin links, first, so order would not matter much.
It will be always like that: Gramps is a linux application.
Itâs a free application. You use proprietary operating systems, so you will always be cited after free OS.
Wouldnât it be more accurate to describe Gramps as a cross-platform application? In the thread on possible libraries to use in Gramps, it was said that only libraries supported on all the major platforms are considered for inclusion in Gramps? Isnât cross-platform compatibility considered with every change made to Gramps?
The primary development platform may be Linux but the intended deployment is wider.
Craig
It would be more politically correct but not more accurate.
Official release dates & public notices are evidently for the primary Debian Linux build.
Then Windows & Mac users hope the developers who adopted the All-in-one installers for Windows & macOS are still interested in those tasks. The installer releases are at their convenience.
But the same is true of other dialects of Linux.
I will but I like to keep options open when they exist just in case one dont work that good or whatever?
*Its a multi platform application that is developed on Linux.
Windows is way more popular, so so what?
There is plenty of open source/free programs that list Windows first, exactly becuase its most popular.
This is my opinion but I sort of want this discussion to end now becuase it goes nowhere.
gramps was originally only developed for linux. People interested in the app have packaged it for other OS. This is their problem.
For me Windows is a the worst OS and shouldnât have exist.
and to be able to utilize Gramps on Linux with all Gramplets, we need to install 10-15 extra packages, where half of them interfere with other already installed softwareâŚ
I actually understand why most people donât use Linux.
There are so many different ways to install packages that you must know to be able to use a program, you often come into a situation where you need to install 4-5 different packages with as many different package managers, or you need to learn how to write and use scripts to do some really simple tasksâŚ
so people have different meanings about whatâs important⌠Doesnât mean one system are better or worse than an otherâŚ
Dockerized Gramps distribution with all its needed packages delivered directly by Gramps team, using which OS team think is the best to run it. Usable on any O.S flavour without any disturbing issues. Simple to install and update. Simlpe to users too with shared directories for database, code, gramplet, medias⌠with the host, everything continues to be simple to modify, backup, etc.
cc: @bmatherly @Nick-Hall @sam888
@emyoulation Your response is rather distressing to me as a Mac user. Are you saying that official policy of the project is that cross-platform support is just a happy coincidence? That Mac and Windows users will be âthrown under the busâ at any time if the project wants to move in a new direction?
How, in good conscience, can I recommend Gramps to a Mac user if the project is indifferent to supporting anything but (Debian) Linux? Do we have any idea what the Mac transition to Apple Silicon is going to do? Do we know if GTK3 or other key libraries are going to be available on Apple Silicon? Should I be transitioning to something that is going to be supported on Mac going forward?
For context, Iâve been actively involved with the MythTV project. The primary development platform is Linux but the project has publicly committed that it seeks to be portable. They use the Qt platform for that reason. Nonetheless, they did not have a Mac-knowledgeable developer for a couple of years and several core features became buggy. If a new dev had not emerged, platform-support would have completely bit-rotted. I understand that a policy commitment is not a be-all, end-all. Still, it would make more comfortable than I am right now.
Is the wiki page on the Gramps team up-to-date?
@emyoulation you are not listed as part of that team but you are extremely active here and on the mailing list. What is your official capacity? You give the appearance of speaking for the project.
Craig
It is simply the nature of any Open Source project that non-coders are âdependent on the kindness of strangersâ.
"Past performance is no guarantee of future results." There have been any number of Gramps expansions, forks, and add-ons that have had an early proponent, thrived for awhile and died off. Perhaps the community grew too demanding and the developers just stopped publishing their improvements. People riding the coattails of Open Source should be aware of the risks. And if the person is high-maintenance or needs guarantees, Open Source probably isnât the right solution.
Some forks were popular but couldnât attract a maintainer after the original proponent left. (Such as Portable Gramps).
It is important to have the right expectations of an Open Source project. It is a GIFT. The developers share their efforts and users demanding that they conform to commercial software âmarket demandsâ is not reasonable. To expect them to have the same foreknowledge of Appleâs or Microsoftâs 2-year roadmap is not reasonable. (Do you know how much those companies charge Developerâs for that priveledge & seminars?)
The Developers are ANYTHING but indifferent to user hopes & dreams. They gain NOTHING and suffer many slings & arrows by gifting this software. Some are working out-of-pocket to provide hosting or acquire development tools.
My position with the project is non-existent. I am, as you say, very vocal. My contribution is to try to reduce the load on developers.
Once such load is closely monitoring the forum to give early responses to basic questions. Many responses are reiterating prior responses or pointing people to the appropriate wiki section. (It can be hard to locate introductory passages.) Responding on the forum is very time consuming.
And I try to tweak the wiki based on the current questions.
^
Linux might have some advantages, but it also has quite a few disadvantages, many of them making linux harder to use, something that is a big thing for the average person. Linux will never become very popular on PCs when it is like it is now. Another thing is some things requiering command line to do some things.
There is other reasons too but these are two of the reasons.
For me and many people the drawbacks of linux is worse than that of Winows or MacOS.
It was true 10 years ago.
Do users have the choice ? 99.5% of PCs are preloaded with windows !
In 99.99% of cases, a lambda user will never use the command line.
Try using Ubuntu in a virtual machine. You will be surprised.
Its still true, thats a fact. It is better than what it was, but its still very much true.
Linux do have a much steeper learning curve, thats just how Linux currently is.
No machine with windows blocks you from installing Linux.
Not true. It might not happen that often but it does happen. While on for example Windows or macOS it happens actually 0% of the time.
I have.
Hell, somtimes things that have an GUI option, when you google how to do it, what you get is how to do it via command line, and that is a turnoff.
Also, if any of you argue âLinux have so many options and customizationâ, most people dont care. Hell, the sea of options might itself be an turnoff, even if people recommend Ubuntu.
I am not saying Linux isnt for no one or that there isnt many people that can use it, dont take it as that.
If the OP of a topic had ability to stop a spesific off topic discussion without closing the hole thing, I would.
@emyoulation I appreciate your work in user support. For some years, I was the de facto Mac support person for the MythTV project. I truly understand the effort involved.
However, I donât think you are following my main point. I well understand that open source means developers get to choose what they want to work on. The MythTV anecdote would have made that clear, I thought. So choosing to entrust Gramps with my family history information already carries a level of risk that I thought I understood.* Now, you are asserting that non-Linux users could be considered an afterthought. And there is no statement I can find on the projectâs web site that says that some priority is given to maintaining Gramps on Mac or Windows. That suggests that there may be a further level of risk of which I was previously unaware. With the imminent change on the Mac platform to Apple Silicon, maybe I should be looking to migrate my data before it is too late**.
Also, please donât put words in my mouth. I never said Developers are âindifferent to user hopes & dreamsâ. You implied that cross-platform support is merely fortuitous happenstance and thus that the project doesnât strive keep other platforms functional.
Craig
My take of this thread.
Thank You!!!
To all of the developers, coders, translators, wiki editors, participants in discussions⌠anyone and everyone that has ever helped to make Gramps what it is today and what it will be tomorrow.
As an open source project, it takes everyone, even the newbie asking a basic question to make Gramps great.
So Thank You All!!!
(now can we be done with this thread?)
I do not want to comment, nor correct the errors that were said at the end of this thread âout of initial topicâ, but I take the opportunity to say that it is IMHO very important to think Open Source for the transmission of dematerialized data to future generations as genealogical work is made to be transmitted to descendants.
With Gramps (Open Source) which works under Linux (Open source) you therefore put all the chances on your side so that your data can be exploited in future centuries.
A similar thought must be made with regard to the file formats that we use.
Best regards.
I tried to install Gramps and all its âdependencesâ on a Debian 10 yesterday, it took me way over 1,5 hour to get all the libraries installed.
On Windows the same job take something like 10 min, installing graphviz and all other âextrasâ , including a full package of MiTek LaTeXâŚ
Iâm sorry to say but for anyone with little or no knowledge of Computers and Linux in special, itâs hopeless to try to get Gramps with all Gramplets to work.
And the distro of Gramps are most likely 2-3 versions older than the newest one, so you need to learn to install from a .deb package, and, you need to figure out how to update Python and everything else by command lineâŚ
Itâs just not user friendlyâŚ
And as long as any software are like that, Linux will not gain popularity among ânormalâ users.
Second thing is if you manage to update the wrong library on Linux, you still have the risiko of multiple software getting deprecated on that system, and only way to fix it, are to reinstall more or less everything, if you donât know how to dig deep into bash commands.
Linux are great for a lot of things, but user friendly, itâs a loooooong way to go before that is trueâŚ
And just so you donât think Iâm not running any instances of Linux, I have 3 servers, 1 on hardware, 2 on a VM (Hyper-V headless server), 3 Hyper-V guests on Windows 10, and Debian in WSL2 with GUI and XRDP and connect through Remote Desktop (running Gramps, as test even though RDP to WSL2 are sluggish.